"Thankfully are[sic] kids are safe"? What a bizarrely permissive statement. I'd like to think that ALL Ferndale students deserve safety, regardless of age.

Wow, I met to say THE KIDS are safe. I know there are students involved, but I wanted to make it clear that they weren't K-12 students, as possibly suggested by a comment. I apologize for my mistake.

...and yes, all students deserve a safe learning environment. This whole thing is so tragic to me because there are so many students that change their lives because of their opportunity to go back to school in an alternative setting, then something like this happens to jeopardize what they have.

Thanks for clearing it up.

wrong.
stuff like this does not happen everywhere.

"wrong."? No, this kind of thing is possible in most places. One child can change the whole story...

@Lucas
read my words again.
"stuff like this does not happen everywhere."
my words mean what they say, not what you want them to say or how you think the world works.

Let them loose enrollment! why should others pay for others mistakes? Not my problem, and I hold myself responsible for my problems and solve them myself..

What you are seeing is "White Flight"... Just like in Detroit in the 60's and 70's.
People feared for their life! It is just that simple.... And Tom Gagne, if you think it is scarry now; you just wait? This is just a taste of things to come! And it is closer to your house than you think?

As proud as we may be to see our police on-top of situations like this, it's still a scary thing to see happen so close to home.

Everyone deserves an education. If you want a Ferndale education, then it's my opinion you should have to move to Ferndale. Pay a Ferndale rent. And a Ferndale tax.

But who goes to what school is irrelevant when what you have is a common thug with a gun walking up and waiting for someone outside. That's not a school issue. That's a thug issue.

All schools dubbed "school of choice" benefit, financially, from students coming in from various communities...if they didn't, students from said communities would not be allowed without Ferndale residency...although this was not an argument I was making. I do, however, agree with your point Vendetta.

Well I personally have never seen any numbers to support that assumption. You're making a huge leap that there can only be one reason a school system would create and staff an entirely new school just for students from a failed school system. Because if we're being fiscally responsible, it certainly cannot possibly be because we somehow feel responsible to start saving all the failing communities at the risk of our own. It's also conceivable that the schools were opened merely to avoid the outrage that would have erupted had Ferndale Public Schools simply stated, "We're not entertaining students from Detroit" because of the obvious racial implications such a statement carries. It's been so much as stated that these schools were an answer to the problem of the long line of students' parents applying for their kids using fraudulent addresses. To me, it's not an answer. It's a capitulation. It shouldn't be a racial discussion. It should be one of simple fiscal soundness. We can't afford to educate everyone. If you like our schools, move here.

I don't see how anyone could consider that somehow unfair. And while it's true I can't support my scenario with data any better than you can, I don't buy your "Taft School Makes Ferndale A Bundle" theory out of hand without seeing some proof.

Guy, I've asked the district to release financial data on the costs of operating each school. The response I received was a curt, "The district budget is calculated based on the state’s uniform accounting system and does not allocate revenue-to-expense by building."

What we do know is teachers at the alternative schools are paid less than those at the public schools (according to a union representative). We also know there are fewer extra-curricular activities like arts and sports at the alternative schools. So even if the district doesn't have an accounting of the revenue/expense per-building, I'm confident we can back-in to a relative revenue/expense picture suggesting that some of BAMNs complaints about Ferndale are legitimate.

The question for district voters is, is this a path they want the board to continue following, or would they prefer the board abandon the non-traditional programs and the problems that accompany them and focus on educating Ferndale School District residents?

Any argument can probably be made that the district couldn't afford their programs at the public schools if it weren't for the extra revenue from Taft and Southfield, but to make that argument convincingly, they would be forced to produce a per-building revenue/expense report--which they are reluctant to do.

Guy, this is not an assumption, the more students a district has the more money the district gets...schools aren't a charity...I WILL assume that Taft houses students of any background because it makes more sense to have students in a building rather then let it sit dormant and still have to pay for its upkeep. I never said it makes Ferndale a bundle...not to mention no one forced Ferndale to open its doors to ANYONE other then Ferndale students...they made a choice to do so and it was driven by financial reasons

While campaigning door-to-door on the streets bordering Taft I heard many complaints from residents about the students attending the school, their behavior in the parking lot, the streets, drug use, and the vandalism of nearby property.

http://tggagne.blogspot.com/2011/08/there-you-go-again.html

Closing the school will not end the crime. Both the kids that go there to learn, and the kids that go there to sell drugs, and show each other their firearms like egotistical 9 year olds their penises out come essentially the same distances to get there. It's not as though once you close the school some magical wall will suddenly go up.

The only reason to close the school is because we can't afford to absorb the cost of it.

Not that I'm necessarily advocating it, but why wouldn't closing the school put an end to the crime at the school?

For those that object to closing the school, how about moving it? FSD already operates an alternative-ed school in Southfield on property it leases, why not lease another building outside the city and transfer Taft's programs?

The district would then have to figure out what to do with an empty building, which may or may not be as problematic for residents as an adult-ed building, but is another possibility.

Then again, if the residents aren't regular visitors to board meetings, maybe it's not as bad as they say it is.

It's simple. Because suggesting that having the school open somehow causes crime in the first place is a canard, and one that is somewhat racist. It insinuates that crime occurs only because people from Detroit come into Ferndale. When a logical person knows that crime occurs because there are criminals in every city, and there are more in poorer neighborhoods where opportunities are scarce and a sense of misguided outrage is handed down from generation to generation. That's not racial. That's a class issue. People don't commit crimes because they're black. They commit crimes because they're undereducated, underemployed and probably medicate their condition with drugs and/or alcohol.

Detroiters don't go away because the schools close, nor would a reasonable person want them to. The whole concept of closing the school resulting in a drop in crime is garbage.

I would concede that basketball hoops historically draw crowds that are eventually dominated by gangster activity. And I'm not sure why that is, but it does seem to be so. Cutting down a basketball hoop after a gun crime has occurred makes sense. But not closing down an institution of education. The only reason to close a school, which by the way is the only real way to fight crime, poverty and addiction long term in the first place, is because we simply can't afford it.

Guy to make sure we're on the same page, many of the students attending Taft are there because they either a) they didn't follow the traditional route or b) they're there on condition of their probation--or at least that's what the Wayne County Court folks say. Unfortunately, they won't provide numbers on how many attend FPS because they don't keep track of which schools the students attend, all they keep track of is that there's some validation they're pursuing their GED. The courts aren't interested enough in /where/ they're going to class, or if they are, they aren't interested in sharing it with a random person calling on the phone.

If there are no numbers then we probably shouldn't be putting anecdote out there as fact. You heard a rumor from a friend who works for the county? Fine. Let's leave it at that.

No, not rumors from a friend. I actually contacted both the court and the probation department. Another complication are closed records for juvenile offenses.

You're right, numbers would help a lot. The only people that might be able to share some numbers are the school district. Perhaps its worth another try.

"People with guns lurk around ROHS too, but always for different motives than mass murder."

Connor, that's quite the observation from an ROHS student. Have you reported those lurkers to the police? Curious about your post, I've contacted the Royal Oak Police Department seeking information regarding reports or incident near the high school involving guns.

Yes, because students should feel as though they have to leave a bathroom in their own school. Wonderful.

And sorry, but I'm not buying that there are as many thugs at ROHS as there are at Ferndale.

FR: How many thugs go to Ferndale? And how many thugs go to ROHS? What's a thug? There are a lot of valid points that can be made throughout this entire thread... but there is also a huge amount speculation.

According to a Royal Oak Police representative, there have been no reports or incidents of guns being carried or used in or near Royal Oak High School in the last year. A more detailed report will have to wait until next week since their records division is closed on Fridays.

What about the year prior?

Terry, I'll have to wait until next week since their records division is closed on Fridays.

What makes a school building unsafe? Guns, yes... but what about fights, or sexual harassment/assault. I think all of it should be considered.

"What makes a school building unsafe? Guns, yes... but what about fights, or sexual harassment/assault. I think all of it should be considered."

Terry, on their own, guns, fists, and male genitalia are not unsafe. It's what *is* done with them that makes them unsafe. It's not the gun's, fist's, or genitalia's fault it is used to assault. It is the person that is responsible for their actions, not their appendages or accessories.

So the question isn't how do we remove guns, fists, and male genitalia from schools, but how do we prevent their improper use, not attract people likely to use them improperly, and not violate the rights and peeves of others perfectly cable of possessing all of them safely.

Tom: I'm with you except for -- "So the question isn't how do we remove guns"

Guns should be removed from schools (not a debate about whether a responsible adult with a license should own a gun or now) -- but I get what you're saying.

"So the question isn't how do we remove guns, fists, and male genitalia from schools, but how do we prevent their improper use, not attract people likely to use them improperly, and not violate the rights and peeves of others perfectly cable of possessing all of them safely."

I bet the answer to that is to close an educational facility in the area... wait... maybe its to run away from thugs (move, go to other school districts, be frightened).... hmmm.... OR!...maybe its to ban together as a sane, caring society to provide educational opportunities to those who need it most and create a plan (neighborhood patrol, businesses in the area to provide eyes on the street) to help protect our citizens from the mistakes that others (thugs!) might make. Treat the thugs (aka HUMANS/CITIZENS) with fairness and perhaps they will learn justice.

For the moment, Michelle, we'll ignore the argumentum ad misericordiam of your reply because I'm sure your heart is in the right place. There are many things to be sympathetic toward regarding community schools, and as some of them are in conflict with each other sympathy is a better basis for charity than government bodies--there's no limit to the amount of money that could be spent on sympathetic causes and government must have limits--if only to leave room for real charity.

But to your point, you're haste to jump to conclusions and put words in my mouth (or posts, as it were) assumes too much.

I'm not necessarily interested in closing the school. I'm more interested in understanding what our school board and superintendent's intentions are with Taft, and if those intentions are aligned with the mission and purpose of school districts in general and the Ferndale School District (FSD) in particular.

I will hazard an opinion that if a district's services do not primarily serve the residents within the district then perhaps we should examine those discretionary activities to understand their benefit to the district and taxpayers.

For instance, what value does the Southfield adult-ed facility provide the residents of FSD? I understand why The University of Phoenix has classroom space in Troy, but I'm less certain how FSD's Southfield facility serves the interests of FSD or its taxpayers.

Though I quoted you, Tom, I was not only referring to your posts. I apologize for the confusion. I’m in the middle of finals week and was trying to say many things at once.

Let me reiterate:

“Thugs” are humans and deserve to be treated with the same respect.
Fear doesn’t solve violence.
Education does reduce crime.

“A one percent increase in the high school completion rate of all men ages 20-60 would save the United States as much as $1.4 per year in reduced costs from crime incurred by victims and society at large. Such externalities from education amount to $1,170-2,100 per additional high school graduate or 14-26% of the private return to schooling.” [California Center for Population Research] (and yes, that is a statistic referring to high school graduation, not GED, but you get the picture)

Create solutions to solve the problem at hand, while understanding the future outcomes.

I would also like to know more about the Southfield location.

I don't think that will be asked in a classroom.

Terry, that made me LOL

Once again, not POLITICALLY CORRECT! But true...... If you want to ask about the Black culture, consult Bill Cosby or Pastor David Manning... They are black, so they can comment without being called racist. I myself attended a 75% black school; and was in fear for my life every day! My wife attended the Detroit Public School System; so we know the cultural issues... Ask yourself, "Why did Mayor Covey move out of Palmer Park? And why did the gay community migrate north to Ferndale? Here is why! Read this.. http://www2.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=10562

Ferndale is becoming the New Palmer Park! Or as I call it; Palmer Park North.

You've already established yourself as the area's leading racist, Bensick. What, are you going for the whole state?

Funny thing when someone is truly a bigot on a pathological scale, they don't even know when it's coming out of their mouth. They don't even have a sense of what is normal conversation and what is just plain ignorant racism.

Do you truly believe that? That none of us are safe? I mean, yes, this is a terrible crime. But to say that none of us are safe?

I can't disagree, people are rotten in every society and class to some degree; as far as leaving, I plan too! Not because of your advice though, but because i don't feel like being a statistic.. I saw Sgt. B. Brown and 4 police cars on West End, and another home invasion from what I can tell; with a busted open window! as for our Governor, you are generalizing on a tough situation; there is no money and tough choices, since congress, bad presidents and money printing/inflation and hand outs put this country in the poor house. Corruption in goverment, bailing out crony Wallstreet banks and Barack Obama with a load of BS. He is no different than GW. Bush in many ways... Just the same old stuff, and tax payers who actually work, pay for it! But that is life, and always will be. Since real capitalism died, Dysfunctionalism became the American way of life; there was no return to normalcy! The middle class was created by men like Henry Ford, then goverment got involved.... but if all communities are all alike, why don't you moveback into Detroit where you can really help all those poor people? We can hold a raffle to benefit the schools here in Ferndale; we can have a little guessing game/raffle off tickets of how long it takes for you to be victumized in Detroit? The person who guesses the crime and closest date of the crime wins?

Sounds like a win / win situation?