Residents Unite to Identify City Financial Waste
20 attend first official meeting of Ferndale 1st: Ferndale Citizen Watchdogs last week.
A group has formed in Ferndale to watch over government waste and to regain the lost voice of the Ferndale resident, it says.
"We want the city to live within its means," said group's organizer Sean House. "This is not about agenda, but what is best for Ferndale. Republicans, Tea Partyers, liberals, conservatives, gay or straight — it doesn't matter."
House co-chaired Ferndale Against Council's Tax (F.A.C.T.), the group that campaigned for a no vote in the May 3 millage election.
About 20 persons attended the first official meeting of the group called Ferndale 1st: Ferndale Watch Dogs.
In the audience were city council hopeful Sherry Wells and Robert Grix, who was behind a recount of the May 3 election. Grix's efforts turned over one more no vote than originally counted.
"It's important to have some change, to get in (City Council) and break up what is there now," Grix said.
Many of the participants showed frustration with council and displeasure with passage of the millage.
"We were bamboozled," an audience member said. "It was fear tactics, the ol' bait-and-switch."
Kay Watson wanted to break up the "clique and cronyism in city hall," while Brian Donavan felt that the group should "vote down any new tax issue."
House made it clear that the group's mission is to hit on different issues and not just vote against taxes. "This is not just about voting against tax issues and bond issues. I've voted for tax issues and bond issues," House said. "This is about looking at the full picture."
He called on members to use cameras and video cameras to "capture waste" and distribute it among the group. "We need to find and report waste," he said. "We all have a camera or video cameras on our phones. If you see something, like sprinklers going in the rain, it's waste, take a picture."
Some of the group believe that council may not be listening during its public comment portion of the council meetings, and that residents were "pawned off" to the city manager or the Department of Public Works director.
There was visible displeasure for the wayfinding signs that recently went up, which was coordinated by the Downtown Development authority, as well as questions on how much ParkMobil would cost the city's general fund. ParkMobil is a new program that accepts parking payment via a smart phone app.
"You have to get out of this echo chamber," resident Tom Gagne said to the group. "You have to educate yourself."
Gagne explained to the group that the ParkMobil fund is part of the auto parking fund, which makes money for the city and is separate from the general fund. "You have to get out of these echo chambers about issues. You talk over and over again. You have to read what they are reading. Occasionally you'll read something interesting and say, 'Oh my gosh, I didn't think of that.' "
Mary Kay Fredericks, however, wanted to make sure that the group knew that their feelings were legitimate.
"We all have legitimate complaints and grievances," she said. "It is still, to us, very legitimate and it is important. We have lost this in our council. Your complaints and grievances are important."
Pounding her fist on the table, she added: "Am I wrong or am I right?"
Ferndale 1st will next meet on Sept. 6 at Grand Central Storage.
Correction: Robert Grix called for a recount of the May 3 election.
Mark Blackwell
6:47 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
So...as you can see. Ferndale is not ENTIRELY without its union busting, contract breaching, government hating, liberal-bashing, overthrow plotting box of teabags.
Sherry A Wells
9:04 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
As Patch reported, I was there. NONE of the topics you listed were discussed. Most importantly, to me, is that Sean House firmly advised that everyone be certain of the facts of an issue--that holds true for all of us.
Phoenix
7:43 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Well Tom can try to demonize ParkMobil but when he speaks of it he really should publicize what it really is. It an innovative way of doing a parking meter and is it helps the community's businesses and customers avoid tickets, then it's a plus.
It'll be interesting to see if they find any real cloak & Dagger in Ferndale's city finaces or if this will be a matter of opinion.
Greg Pawlica
8:57 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Careful, Phoenix. Tom wasn't demonizing ParkMobil...he was telling the group that the project was funded through the AutoPark budget which is separate from the General fund budget.
Sherry A Wells
9:07 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I have been a volunteer on the DDA Parking Committee for many months now. The ParkMobile, as I understand it, will cost the DDA / City nothing. ParkMobile earns its money on the service charge and collections go directly, and promptly, into the parking fund. Parking enforcement will be provided with equipment to know which cars have not paid for their parking--also free of charge. ParkMobile stated they are in 100 cities so far.
Jim O'Donnell
9:07 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I read Tom's quote about ParkMobil as the opposite of demonizing. I think he was providing valuable advice about not reflexively opposing everything that the city does.
His larger point about getting outside the echo chamber is important for all sides. Seek out people and information that differs from your own point of view. It might not change your mind, but hopefully will make our small town discussions more informed and civil. And perhaps we can avoid empty and senseless accusations of kickbacks and unethical behavior (see below) when one doesn't like a sidewalk repair or program.
Thomas Gagne
9:41 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Bump.
Phoenix
10:17 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
That's ok Greg. I can retract the demonize statement. I stand by the rest though.
Phoenix
6:24 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Actually Jim I have taken the time to reach out to Sean House and get an open dialogue when he has time. He has a new addition to the family and he can get back to me when he has time. I'm open to listening to ideas from people who do not have a personal agenda. So far I'm waiting for comments like "clique and cronyism in city hall," to either be squashed or proven. So let's bring the proof and facts to the table.
Dana Forrester
8:23 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I am particularly frustrated with Ferndale's sidewalk "repairs" - making residents pay for this during these tough economic times is criminal. Mine was barely noticeable but I received the dreaded red X. It looks worse now after "the repair." Is the City getting kick backs? Very suspicious and unethical!
Mark Blackwell
8:38 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Wow. That's a pretty stark over dramatization. Residents who have lived here for a decade or more are perfectly aware of how Ferndale maintains their sidewalks. They use a system by which they count the depth, diameter and number of stone holes as concrete begins to erode. And when it reaches a certain point they fix it. Everyone who's been around pretty much knows that. And ... yes ... you have to pay to maintain your infrastructure. Good times and bad. Everyone pretty much knows that too.
If you got a bad batch of concrete, petition the city. Maybe they'll agree it's as horrible as you make it sound and respond. But I wouldn't walk in slinging unfounded accusations of "kick backs." It's not a good way to start a conversation, or have anyone take you seriously.
Sherry A Wells
9:13 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I agree with Mark Blackwell about "slinging unfounded accusations." As Sean House said, "get the facts." I read you as expressing frustration and that often leads to suspicions. An Ethics provision--one of the items proposed by the Charter Revision Commission I led a bit over 10 years ago--would give the city a mechanicism to have well-founded suspicions investigated and handled if proven, laid to rest if not.
James Trunko
10:32 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Mark - I agree with Dana Forrester. The criteria for a 'flag' of sidewalk getting replaced was that the crack or defect needed to be greater than 1/2"! Do they really think someone is going to trip on a 1/2 inch defect, and sue the city of Ferndale?! I could understand if the defect is/was egregious, like a totally broken-up 'flag'. I don't know for sure, but based on what I have seen of the sidewalks in Ferndale, I would say that 75% of these 'repairs' were unnecessary. And who really knows for sure? Maybe someone's pockets are getting lined with profits from these 'unnecessary repairs'?
Mark Blackwell
11:30 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
James Trunk said: "And who really knows for sure? Maybe someone's pockets are getting lined with profits from these 'unnecessary repairs'?"
And who really knows, James? Maybe there's an asteroid headed straight for Earth as we speak! And who really knows? Maybe Elvis is still alive! And who really knows? You can't prove that flouride isn't what's causing all the cancer in the world. And who really knows? The Chinese might have submarines line up and down the East and West Coasts of the US just waiting to invade.
Who really knows. And who really cares? You begin to see how completely inane it sound to barf out a negative that can't be disproven. It's why most people steer away from them and stick with facts they actually DO have.
If you have evidence of fraud.........THEN....... you speak of it. Otherwise? Well, you know. I've already said.
Or who really knows. Maybe I didn't and I just think I did.
Greg Pawlica
3:25 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
We have to remember that although the city replaces residential sidewalk flags every year, they only come around to a specific area of the city once every 10-12 years. So, a flag that has a 1/2" rise this year might not cause someone to trip, but in 3 or 4 years, that rise could reach an 1" or more, and over 12 years, it will be even higher. Yes, it is also possible that the flag never moves beyond the 1/2" for the next 12 years, but the city can't take that chance...does the home owner want to be the one financially reliable for someone tripping on their sidewalk? I don't. My flags were ALL replaced in 2002 and I am glad that they were all done at one time. with any luck, I won't see any sidewalk repairs until 2022 or beyond.
James Trunko
3:54 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Nice response, Mark. Very thoughtful and intelligent.
Mark Blackwell
9:09 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Here's the tattle tale tell of this group:
"(Brian Donovan) called on members to use cameras and video cameras to "capture waste" and distribute it among the group. "We need to find and report waste," he said. "We all have a camera or video cameras on our phones. If you see something, like sprinklers going in the rain, it's waste, take a picture."
You catch that? It's not that they evidence of waste or fraud. It's that they are deploying cameras and dispatching suspicious, paranoid fellow conservatives into the neighborhood to FIND some. To CREATE an issue where they don't really have one to begin. They just presume there must be waste and fraud, since that's what their talking points tell them, so they're certain if they just start fishing soon enough God will bless them with the bows and arrows they need to trample another peaceful community with the shouting down, breaking faith and just mowing over the middle class that has served them so well in other communities.
You know who else does this? That little Breirtbart punk, James O'Keefe. He starts off with NO story, and keeps rolling until he creates one. Then it's just a matter of waiting for the sharks in the waters to swarm and go into a feeding frenzy. But we've seen over and over what hogwash this tactic is.
If you have EVIDENCE ... PRESENT IT. Otherwise. Sit down ... s the f u. Ferndale is a progressive community, and you aren't going to Scott Walker it no matter how devious you can be.
Terry Parris Jr.
10:47 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Mark: For clarification, that is Sean House's quote, not Donovan's.
Debi
4:19 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Mark BlackwelI: "If you have EVIDENCE ... PRESENT IT. " Can you do the same? You have been trashing anyone that is not in your "progressive" political mind set. Just by chance, do you know any of us personally? Have you ever talked to us without assuming you know what we are & what we think? Have you ever gotten off your angry tirade long enough to listen to facts that you may not even know about? Yes, some of us have lived in Ferndale longer than a "decade or so", and we have seen OUR community when it really did thrive! Try talking to someone who is not on a political agenda, and has lived here 30, 40, 50+ years. Then you may have your eyes opened and your ears hearing the real truth of what makes a good community!
Phoenix
6:30 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Actually Debi I have spoken a couple of members of the team and they have laid out quite plainly what their opinion is and their personal beef with people within the city. Since this was a private conversation I'll hold back on the details. ...and that draws the line for this house hold.
Dennis N. Augustson
9:34 am on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I am sorry I didn't make the watchdog meeting the other night. But I for one couldn't afford the tax increase my wife and I voted for back in May. We did it because we didn't our city to become run down looking like a ghetto. And lets not forget a few weeks back when several hundred people poured out on to EIGHT MILE and police departments had to contain the uprising between gangs at least that was my understanding. All I know is that the helicoptors circled over my house for sometime. I remember the riots of 1967. Now does anyone want live like that? The Fire Chief talked about the I.S.O. rating. For anyone who doesn't have a computer they can go to the Library and read about it on line there. If your not registered then you can register and have your Library Card right there. Walls don't stop the noise from a train wistle at 1, 2, 3,4 A.M. in the morning. There isn't enough room to write more. Dennis N. Augustson
jennifer
1:58 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I was not at the meeting, but I'm curious if the organizers offered any idea about what constructive solutions they would suggest in relation to "captured waste." Like spending an hour each rainy morning running about with your camera to see if sprinklers are running seems like a lot of effort. What efforts would be given to finding solutions to that waste? How can be constructive about it? Would the watchdogs help fundraise to purchase expensive sensors to eliminate unnecessary watering? Would they help xeriscape all public property? Do they volunteer to run to the public works shut off valves in the wee hours of the morning to turn off the sprinklers? I guess I just don't understand the nitpicking if it's not constructive. There are sometimes we just have to accept that it's cheaper to pay for unnecessary water than upgrade a system (and boy, I'm sure there'd be howling over unnecessary sprinkler upgrades anyway) or paying someone to turn off the systems at 3am when it rains. Or relandscaping every time there is a stretch without rain. I get the resistance to spending on things we deem unnecessary. I am a budget hawk myself. But I'm also a reasonable, constructive person. And I hope that this group of citizens is not just thinking about nitpicking on sprinklers and trying to catch a city hall worker taking 3 minutes too long while on break. If we're looking at the "big picture" we can't be scrutizing the molehills while disregarding the mountains, eh?
Greg Pawlica
3:27 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
AMEN, Jennifer!
Debi
4:38 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
The respondents that have found no merit in the Watchdogs first meeting & feel obligated to criticize, should first attend a meeting, and get the FACTS before bringing on the attacks on people and content that they have no knowledge about. ALSO, PLEASE start showing COURTESY & RESPECT...Learn some MANNERS...THANK YOU!
Mark Blackwell
7:58 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I don't need to present any evidence. I'm not trying to push an agenda that Ferndale City is corrupt and on the take.
So, there's all the air out of that big, hot, pointless balloon you inflated above.
Baron Brown
8:04 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Okay, so I didn't go to this meeting but what exactly are you looking for with your cameras at the ready? Are we going to see a picture of a DPW standing holding a shovel? Is there going to be a photo of a cop sitting on the side of the road reading a newspaper? Is one of your group going to be hiding in the bushes waiting with their finger on the button of their camera hoping to catch a fire fighter sitting in a lawn chair in the back of the station? What is your agenda? A picture without an explanation, an honest explanation, is useless, inflammatory and more than likely not part of a political agenda.
Mark Blackwell
8:17 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
I don't mind a political agenda. Although people like to throw that out like its some kind of personality disorder ... truth is, we all have one. Some are more driven by it than others. Some folks look at a political situation and just shrug, "Eh!". But we all have a perspective from which we draw our conclusions.
Conservatives think they have the magic wand to fix everything. Boot people off public assistance. Blow unions up. If there's a contract standing in the way of a corporate bonus ... just tear up the contract and take the money. But they do have a sane side. The hate waste. And they don't want to have their lives controlled by government. Who does?
Liberals like me tend to pull the free money branch down so the poor and sick can reach and take a little something to survive. It wreaks havoc on budgets. And we tend to write checks without balancing the books. But we have a sane side. We don't want to be controlled by government either, but we're not paranoid that black helicopters are coming to steal the farm. We understand what taxes are for. It's my money. And I voted for someone who would spend it properly. And I don't need a room full of screaming mee-mees to try and convince me they're stealing it.
Where the sanity begins to fall apart is when the honesty begins to wane. Then, I don't care WHAT your political agenda is. Then you're either making things up, exaggerating the reality ... or just plain lying through your teeth.
Kay Watson
7:22 pm on Sunday, August 28, 2011
Baron, I'm sorry you and others who have commented here didn't attend the meeting as much is being exagerated here about comments made . You'd have a different attitude had any of you attended.
There has been much waste as everyone knows and has been repeated numerous times in Woodward Talk. I'm not talking about water sprinklers, or someone taking a longer break than they should, etc. Comments like this is to dise tack others from the intent of the group. All are welcome to join and have some input.
Seems here some are intent on discouraging community participation.
Debi
9:43 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
All of you should go back and reread the news article. Most of your concerns are addressed in the first 2 paragraphs. Although, in the first sentence it should have said government spending, not "government waste". Note: in the 2nd paragraph there is a period at the end of the 2nd sentence. read: "Ferndale. Republicans,", etc. The points that have been concentrated on in your remarks have been mainly focused on an example of what could be considered wasteful. Now my question to all who don't like the government being watched, why not?
Baron Brown
9:57 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
Its not that I don't like government watched. What is a litle frightening is how the snap shots will be used. Concrete has to set up before it can be floated. Cops get breaks just like the guy at GM or Best Buy and firefighters have down time between calls after all the equipment is serviced and the daily training is done. I doubt the photos would be revealed to the public, Maury Povich style I'm sure, without the proper context. Oh and by the way, thanks for the reading lesson.
Debi
10:15 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
The examples you refer to in your response has never been discussed anywhere but in this blog. If you knew what the group is about, then you would know it's not about going around with a camera. Those of you who created this sort of hysteria by taking words out of context, and then citing it as fact, are just spreading rumors. Much talk has been mentioned in this blog about things attributed to conservatives that are untrue. Why do you who oppose us? What is it about us that worrys you?
R.L.
10:56 pm on Thursday, August 25, 2011
From what I just read in the article;
1) The watchdogs will start barking after the waste or spending is found.
2) The watchdogs will gather facts about said find
3) The watchdogs will use cell cameras bringing issues to awareness
What I read in reply's are mostly knee jerk reactions, don't confuse the two.
debi hit the problem on the head with this "Those of you who created this sort of hysteria by taking words out of context, and then citing it as fact, are just spreading rumors."
One photo can have a thousand words or law suits. Be responsible for your actions get the facts. I don't care about red or blue issues here.
When you see 3 DPW workers staring down a hole while one is working,don't get all pissy whip your cell cameras out. GET THE FACTS!
The one in hole doing is his work knowing they are watching for cave-ins, handing down needed tools and getting his back when in trouble. When was the last time Ferndale made the news on a DPW job related death?
If you don't understand anything I typed here is the synopsis " GET THE FACTS! ".
Mark Blackwell
6:41 am on Friday, August 26, 2011
Your reading is cursory and a surface analysis of the words. What I'm more interested in is intent.
Their intent is obvious to anyone who reads a news paper or watches a new report on local activists seeking to assist larger political organizations in overturning pockets of progressive strongholds by creating red herrings on film. And generally what they find, publish, and waste our time and money with are big, shiny examples of nothing.
What do think, it's the first time we've seen this technique? Don't insult people.
Mark Blackwell
6:43 am on Friday, August 26, 2011
Let's try to remember what the mantra is of this political group.
"We need to find examples of waste so we can prove our political talking point that taxes are an unnecessary evil."
Debi
2:14 am on Saturday, August 27, 2011
It seems you're looking much deeper into this than what is actually happening. A better headline, and article, would have focused on the Watchdogs looking for accountability of how the city funds are used, and if our city officials are being responsive to the people of Ferndale. This group purposely decided to be non-partisan! Paying attention to how our city operates should never be a partisan issue. Also, we hope that more residents will be involved in discovering how their tax money is being spent, and if the city officials are carrying out their duties. The more people know, the better our city will be!
Mark Blackwell
7:39 am on Saturday, August 27, 2011
The motives are obvious to me. And they are as far from non partisan as it gets. They're out to prove something that they haven't a shred of evidence to prove yet. Nothing but suspicious minds and ill intent.
If you want to know how tax money is spent, or whether there's waste or fraud in city government, you start by knocking on a door and saying hello and announcing your name. Not be leering from behind a bush with a smartphone camera waiting for something, anything to happen that will look good in a YouTube video.
Debi
10:20 pm on Saturday, August 27, 2011
The "suspicious minds and ill intent" referred to, and the tactics that you seem so sure will be used, was never a part of the Watchdogs meeting, or any other conversation that I'm aware of. For not being part of the group, and never attending a meeting, you seem to know the ways & means that haven't even been talked about yet. Remember, this was our first meeting to get set up! Remember the old saying, whenever we assume anything, it makes an --- out of u and me! LOL
Lucas Zdenek
12:11 am on Sunday, August 28, 2011
What time is the meeting on Tuesday the 6th? I'm sure that Mark and anyone else who has concerns about the intent of this group would be happy to find time to come and hear what you all have to say. I may even cancel my Tuesday night cycling event to come hear what is happening. I can't promise I'll agree with any of it, but I am definitely open to find out in person what is being planned. How about it, Mark? Can we give these folks the chance to prove us wrong about conservatives?
Mark Blackwell
7:16 am on Sunday, August 28, 2011
What I may do is bring a smart phone or a camera and try to catch them saying something fraudulant or wasteful.
I'm not interested in learning anything new about the conservative agenda though. I'm old enough to know when to stop expecting an elephant to flap its wings like a bird.